Dead starter motor in an automated car wash!!???

MerlintheMad

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This is not a Stinger story, drama, tragedy. It involves my daughter's little Nissan SUV, two years old, 70K miles, no issues, running perfectly. She likes the Magic Clean place I take my Stinger, and she drove several extra miles to go to it yesterday afternoon. She's recommended Magic Clean to at least three people since her previous experience with them.

So, her car's engine stops running inside the car wash, and at the far end they have to push it out. And trying to start it results in horrible, unhappy noises and no starting. On top of that, the burning smell from the starter motor is the next thing that she notices. "Is that smell MY CAR!?" she practically screamed. "I guess so," said the employee.

The owner came over to see what was up. "I think it's your alternator, or your battery," he offered. He checked the battery by trying the windows and other electrics; all worked fine. "Yep, alternator, then. Come over to my shop across the parking lot and we'll do a diagnostic."

"Can you honor my platinum warranty?" she asked.

"We don't do warranty work," he said. "But we can find out what happened. And go from there."

She was on the phone asking questions of various persons about it, forty-five minutes and counting. And the owner had places to go, people to see and other things to do. So my daughter had her car towed to a mechanic that her older sister trusts a lot: she takes all the Hertz cars that she's a saleswoman for, to that shop. So the younger sister got her car checked out, left over night with the delivered starter motor, and they put it in this morning.

I took my daughter there to collect her car. And I asked the mechanic how a starter motor could fail at the exact time a car was being pushed through a car wash. He was nonplussed, and offered that it would have to be engaged/keyed somehow from inside the car. That fit exactly with my daughter's suspicions that "they" had screwed up. She even suggested that the "high school kid" who started her car into the wash had either somehow put it in park after it got on the conveyor, or stayed inside the car mucking with the key, or SOMETHING.

I can't believe that a kid would scare up work for his dad's shop by wrecking a girl customer's starter motor. But my daughter believes either malice or incompetence. She doesn't care how it happened: THEY did it. Her car was perfect. Then it broke inside their car wash. End of story.

Does anybody here have a better theory on how this could have happened?

PS She has said that she's going to offer to keep coming to them, and recommending them, for years on years, if they pay her $121 deductible for the new starter motor. If they won't pay her expenses, she will say goodbye forever and let anyone know from now on to steer clear of Magic Clean. I, of course, am almost as upset by this as she is.
 
Does you daughter do nothing but drive all the time, that's a lot of miles in 2 years.
It was a rental first.

The family gathered together this evening. And her older diesel mechanic brother pretty much talked her out of any vendetta toward Magic Clean. Whew! "Hell hath no fury as a young woman whose first car is injured." She doesn't blame the car wash directly for damaging her car; but her emotional grudge against it, as the scene of her car's injuries, is not easily displaced by rational thought. :D

I'm pretty sure that something related to an air feed sensor short or failure impacted the starter motor somehow. The air feed fubar caused her engine to shut off in the car wash: the wash guys tried to restart it, which fried the starter motor. This information about the sensor came this evening, as she was driving to the family gathering, and the "check engine" light came on. A diagnostic at O'Reilly's pinpointed the faulty sensor.
 
______________________________
I think the moral of this story is to never turn your keys over to idiots.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
What is an air feed sensor?
Not sure I have the terminology right: I didn't read the diagnostic slip. Something to do with regulating the right amount of air to the engine. I remember my Voyager at c. 70K miles had a "fuel/air mixture" sensor that was bad: smooth throttle and full power were only obtained with the gas pedal down all the way; less than all the way the engine choked and jerked and the power was awful. This is my daughter's first car. I haven't ridden in it, so I don't know what she considers normal. But if a sensor has gone south it should have been something noticeable driving.
 
I think the moral of this story is to never turn your keys over to idiots.
... anymore than necessary. Sometimes you just have to let somebody behind the wheel, even for just a minute. The moral of the story only works if the kid did something that caused the car's engine to shut off, and, short out the starter motor (and, it turns out, kill a sensor). If the kid only put the car on the conveyor and in neutral and got out, then he wasn't being an idiot, he was simply doing his job.
 
What is an air feed sensor?

Perhaps, It refers to MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor...but a faulty sensor should have produced intermittent failures before it failed completely ... weird
 
Sensors never simply fail all at once? Or just rarely?
 
MAF wouldn't be touched by a car wash, it's up in the intake behind the air filter. I doubt you could deliberately reach it with a pressure washer wand with the hood open.

It typically provides temperature and pressure to the ECU to adjust fueling, but even a complete failure (i.e. unplugging it) would not usually prevent the engine from starting and running on "base" fueling maps.

I'm not criticizing your daughter, MtM.. but the sequence of events points to somebody doing something really stupid. The only way I can think of killing a starter motor (and producing that smell) is by trying to drive the car on it, i.e. putting it in gear and holding the key to get the car out of the way. It's not something that just happened by mistake.
 
______________________________
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
Thanks for weighing in. This is the kind of info I am after. I hadn't thought of that! Now, why the engine died inside the car wash, that remains unanswered. Clearly the engine was off when the car wash was finished. The car was in the exit. It wouldn't restart. So if what you are saying is what happened, one of those maroons who is supposed to drive the car out to the drying down station, could not get the car to start, and simply put it in "D" and turned the key until the car was out of the way off to one side of the exit.

I don't know if anything can be done about it, whatever it is that "they" did. As long as there is a non malicious explanation, I feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt and moving forward.

Is there anything else that could be related between the sensor and what could fry a starter the next time it is cranked? Could a short have occurred in the car wash? Not the sensor, because you ruled that out. But the starter motor itself? And the sensor issue is just completely separated from that and coincidental. Or is it?
 
I can't say for certain there is no connection between the burned our starter motor and the sensor, but certainly can't think of any way there could one.

The starter system is VERY simple in vehicles that have a manual (turn a key) ignition - simply a relay that drives a more powerful relay (called a solenoid or starter relay) that drives a very powerful electric motor. There's no other system that would engage the starter. Most manual transmission vehicles have a lockout that requires the clutch be depressed to prevent unintentional (and potentially dangerous) movement of the vehicle but most automatics expect the vehicle to be in park but they might be able to be started in gear. I don't recommend testing it.

Could some kind of short cause it? Sure, but massively unlikely to be caused by a car wash, especially on such a relatively "new" vehicle (despite the miles) or you would have heard of such a thing.

Press-button start like we have is more complex but there are systems in place to limit its use, both in terms of amount of time (huge load on the battery and wiring, and it should never be needed) and when it can be engaged.

As to the shut-off, I wonder if it might have been left in drive instead of neutral and stalled out at some point.

In any case, it was almost certainly just a mistake, not intentional, despite the fumbling when he took it in. At this point, it probably doesn't matter either way.

I have had intentional damage done by valet parking attendants, hence my earlier comment. Of course there was no proof, and they have legal disclaimers everywhere so not much could be done.
 
Thanks.

I'm just upset that my daughter is upset because her car got damaged in the car wash that I like that she liked, until this happened. Of course I want Magic Clean to be "clean". :P I want that coincidence, naturally. But also, I simply want to know what happened and how. I guess that isn't really possible. But at least it appears that my daughter isn't going to press for them to pay for her deductible, which would be like admitting that they did something wrong. I told her that if she goes back to Magic Clean that nothing will likely ever happen again. It was a fluke of timing, etc. I just hate stuff like this. Who doesn't.
 
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