Swapping front door tweeters (component speaker)

[stoopid]

Whoops, I missed that this was a discussion for the base system, not HK.

I'd bet it's the same center channel speaker though. I'll pull mine one of these days (currently have my hands full with another mod).
I'll probably replace mine with a good coaxial speaker and I bet that would tame the harshness.

Yes it definitely has similar issues to the mids on the doors with regards to harshness around the sibilance range (4-10khz).

I'm still rolling with the center dash disconnected, and I'm on the fence whether I'll replace the center speaker. It does help fill the space at lower volume but with the volume turned up enough I don't notice its absence.

 

[stoopid]

Nerding out a bit on my center speaker replacement options, and realized I *could* use a low pass filter on the existing 4" speaker, which would effectively drop the frequency output for the higher frequencies the speaker struggles to produce. What I'm not familiar with is whether these cheap amazon inductors [link removed] are of sufficient quality. I read somewhere the ferrite / iron cores are the cheapest available for audio purposes.

I figured a 150uH inductor would get me in the ballpark knocking down the higher frequencies according to the various charts found online.

In theory this would be a lot easier and cheaper than buying and fitting an aftermarket speaker.

 

[mfenske]

The link you posted appears to be a bundle of resistors. Generally, an inductor looks more like a coil of wire. This one seems to fit the bill

 

[stoopid]

The link you posted appears to be a bundle of resistors. Generally, an inductor looks more like a coil of wire. This one seems to fit the bill

These are very small inductors (don't need to be very big to filter higher frequencies?), coated with epoxy resin according to the description. If I have to use larger ones I guess I can always try that as well, but supposedly this will work(?).

 

[mfenske]

Hmmm? They might work? I'm team conventional inductor since they've been working as crossovers for nearly a century. Plus Parts Express rules! Either way I'm VERY interested in how this shakes out for you.

 

[stoopid]

Hmmm? They might work? I'm team conventional inductor since they've been working as crossovers for nearly a century. Plus Parts Express rules! Either way I'm VERY interested in how this shakes out for you.

The bit I could find would indicate they should work. The lower the filter frequency the bigger the inductor needs to be. So because I'm targeting high frequencies it's physically small. Like you said, we'll both find out soon enough. lol

 

[Aarvix]

Hope it works and doesn't let the magic smoke out.

 

[stoopid]

Hope it works and doesn't let the magic smoke out.

Funny you say that, had I used the ones I linked to above it would have likely toasted them, as they cannot handle the amount of power used in the speaker's circuit. They're intended for other applications, not the 'right' thing for my needs. I likely need something beefier to handle the load, like what mfenske posted earlier (but the correct inductance rating for my application).

 

[mfenske]

Hey @stoopid that inductor I linked, based on the calculator I found online, should be in the 4khz range.

 

[stoopid]

Hey @stoopid that inductor I linked, based on the calculator I found online, should be in the 4khz range.

Yes, looking at the chart again .15mH would be exactly what I'm looking for (I think I missed the decimal point when clicking on it the first time).

 

[stoopid]

... This one seems to fit the bill

In the interest of maintaining my namesake (and reputation), I bought the inductor mfenske recommended and wired it in series with the dash speaker. I think it's working to roll off those highest and harshest frequencies. I'll need to do some more testing at volume, but the track that prompted all this sounded better.

I used some wire taps I had laying around, it was the most solid connection I could make with what I had. I did put a bit of electrical tape around the clamp that holds the tap in place, just in case it decided to spring open and potentially allow the wires to come loose. Took a few minutes of planning to determine the best place to put the inductor, where to cut the wires, etc. The inductor copper is fairly stiff and is partially holding itself in place, in addition to being zip tied to the light sensor cable. About 20 minutes total time, $9 shipped for the inductor.

 

[mfenske]

Cool @stoopid ! It's a pretty tight squeeze in there (at least it was when I swapped out the center channel).

 

[stoopid]

In the interest of maintaining my namesake (and reputation), I bought the inductor mfenske recommended and wired it in series with the dash speaker. I think it's working to roll off those highest and harshest frequencies. I'll need to do some more testing at volume, but the track that prompted all this sounded better.

I used some wire taps I had laying around, it was the most solid connection I could make with what I had. I did put a bit of electrical tape around the clamp that holds the tap in place, just in case it decided to spring open and potentially allow the wires to come loose. Took a few minutes of planning to determine the best place to put the inductor, where to cut the wires, etc. The inductor copper is fairly stiff and is partially holding itself in place, in addition to being zip tied to the light sensor cable. About 20 minutes total time, $9 shipped for the inductor.

Final followup -- the dash speaker is definitely no longer creating harshness, and does fill the cabin a bit with mids (vocals, guitars) so I'm glad to have done the mod. The door speakers would be the final swap needed, but I'm pleased for my casual car listening needs now.

 

[stoopid]

Fast forward two months, and I bit on some speakers on sale at Crutchfield (Rockford Fosgate R165X3). $120 shipped for two sets, (4) speakers in all.

I found some incorrect info online that indicated the original 6.5" door speakers were 4ohm, but when I swapped I noted they're 2ohm 20/40W. At worse, I'd have some volume reduction using 4ohm replacements so I proceeded anyway. The adapters for mounting them in the door were fine but the wiring harness Crutchfield included was a bit off, I had to cut one side to allow the notch on the original connector to slide in. Better than splicing IMO.

Installed and they sound really good. Having already swapped the tweeters and these being 3 way there's quite a bit of high end, but zero harshness. I have turned down the treble and adjusted mid/bass accordingly to get a balanced sound, but man the improvement in overall sound quality is markedly better. They are probably a bit lower volume than a 2ohm replacement set would be, but loud enough that at full blast I can't stand to listen so plenty loud nonetheless. Glad I listened to the advice of others and got this done sooner than later, it's going to add a next level of enjoyment to the car over the coming years.

All in I'm at $250-ish dollars on sound upgrades.

 

[M'Kehyah]

Based on your post - i purchased the Focal tweets!
Thanks!

 

[stoopid]

Based on your post - i purchased the Focal tweets!
Thanks!

I probably would have, in hindsight, swapped out the doors entirely were I to do it all over again (with matching component speakers for the fronts). I ended up cob-jobbing using the Rockford Fosgate 6.5" as replacements in the lower doors. It's fine, but I have to turn the treble waaay down (I'm currently EQ'd at +4 bass, 0 mid, -3 treble).

Also worth noting, I disconnected the center dash speaker (again), even with the inductor rolling off the higher/harshest frequencies, the papery sound the speaker was producing was evident after installing the better sounding doors speakers. I'm definitely not a fan of the center speaker's quality, but I don't even know it's missing with the upgraded speakers. You may want to consider disconnecting (or upgrading) the center as well, even with just the tweeter swap. Zip tie the plug so it doesn't rattle around, and can be reconnected later/trading it in.

 

[Aarvix]

FWIW, here's the HK crossover curve for the center channel (may be the same as base)

 

[M'Kehyah]

I too am loving the Focals. Much more clarity. Very noticeable improvement. Still too bright even with highs on EQ on lowest (-10). But! If you move the "Position" rearward - it does not change the sound stage (weird, right?) and simply rolls the highs off... Try it.

Tips I learned: Simply break the tabs off the OEM tweeter mounts - re-install screws..
I cut/soldered/taped to reduce the wiring. Then taped to the panel to prevent rattles...

Both sides connect to a yellow (pos) and black (neg) wire keeping install simple.

I used super glue (with fine tip control) to glue speakers in the OEM holes.

So, thank you OP! A simple/cheap mod with great results.

 

[stoopid]

Update #15.3

The Rockford Fosgate 6.5" 3-way speakers are really good, for the rear doors. But with Focal tweeters for the front doors there's just too much treble to EQ out using the limited controls in the infotainment system (non-HK). Believe me I tried everything, but they were either too bright or muddy depending on the mix. I got to the point I compromised the sound quality for the best playback across the various music types, and finally got tired of the compromise.

My instincts when I purchased the Rockford Fosgates were to buy a lower end component speaker and just use the 6/5" from that with the Focal tweeters, but the Rockford 6.5" were really cheap so it was worth the small gamble. Well, fast forward a bit and I've purchased/installed two JVC 6.5" from this component set, and voila! What I should have done all along. Sounded great with EQ set to middle, adjusted to add a bit more bass to overcome road noise but very even sounding now. I have a set of audio calibration files and ran some sweeps to make sure there were no drops in frequencies or unexpected increase in certain frequencies that might overlap between the paired JVC 6.5" and Focal tweeters. Smooth as silk, so the crossover set in the 8khz-ish range on the Focals must be a relatively standard thing. I doubt the stock amp is doing any hard EQ limiting/cut/rolloff in the signal it's sending.

The JVC were half price with the purchase of a receiver, so I added a cheap JVC receiver I'm selling on eBay and should end up paying maybe $95 for the JVC components ($129+ cost). The reviews on the tweeters included with the JVC were mixed, some called them harsh/tinny. I was hoping to continue to use the superior Focal tweeters and lucked out that they're a good match. But I would imagine someone still using the stock tweeters would benefit using the ones included in the JVC set.

Here's the current, and hopefully final, build list for my stock/non-Harmon Kardon:

Center Dash / middle speaker [currently disconnected]
Subs under seats [unmodified/stock]
Front doors JVC 6.5" from component set, Focal 1.5" tweeters [Focals are optional, I had already installed them]
Rear doors Rockford Fosgate 6.5" 3-way

 

[M'Kehyah]

Thanks again for posting!
After swapping my tweets with recommended Focals...
I also located the center speaker wire at the amp (took maybe 20" max) to locate wire and cut/tape.

Without the center speaker - you are right! Much better highs/reduced harshness. No great change in soundstage.