Stunned at the stupidity of the general public and their negativity towards KIA/Hyundai

[WRXtoStingerGT]

The Stinger experience is alot easier if you know cars and their mechanical workings well. I've had several Kias before and each time i've had to get stuff done under warranty, i've had to guide the mechanic and service advisor to the TSB or Recall that solved my issue.

Know your car, do your research, and tell them what TSB or Recall to look at. Most Kia dealerships seem to have rookie service advisors which, isn't a bad thing but can be difficult if you yourself don't know the car.

That's good to know actually!

Yeah I definitely need to learn more about this car; especially if in the future I may have to bring it back to the dealership for warranty service and recalls...

I guess that's the nature of the beast.

On a side note... why does Kia have so many rookie service advisors and techs when compared to other brands? Even other budget brands like Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc... Kind of strange tbh...

 

[Revvdmedia]

That's good to know actually!

Yeah I definitely need to learn more about this car; especially if in the future I may have to bring it back to the dealership for warranty service and recalls...

I guess that's the nature of the beast.

On a side note... why does Kia have so many rookie service advisors and techs when compared to other brands? Even other budget brands like Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc... Kind of strange tbh...

I think the argument of knowing the car better than the service advisor goes both ways. Understandable that the advisors and mechanics won't be aware of every little issue and TSB, but some of them don't like to be guided. When my Mustang went in for a clack from the rear end, I left a note on my observations and findings because I know finding noises are probably one of the worst things to fix. I told them I thought it might be the LSD due to the things that instigate the noise. I made the mistake of watching the dashcam footage after and their lead technician basically called me an internet jockey and that these are things I heard on the internet (to coin my term, driveline lash). To top it off, he thought the noise was coming from the front end. From that point I lost all confidence and ditched the car, too many stupid issues and a tremendous rattle trap to boot.

My attempts to have the sunroof in the Stinger rectified are well documented in threads here and to surmise, it was a large contributing factor to my not keeping the car. The fact that the corporate level refused to acknowledge it as a problem lead me to believe the warranty wasn't worth much if they don't fix customer complaints.

I have had a check engine light in the BMW since last week, I attribute it to the fact I had an open cone intake and the fact it was -30C for a week straight. I called to book it in to have it checked out and they blame the cold and the battery (over the phone). I'm certain the battery is fine, and the 2 hours straight of driving on Saturday should have topped up the charge completely. I've been on the factory airbox since Thursday so it should have reset by now. They'll be eating their words when the scan the codes and find the lean operating code I found, and nothing to do with the battery. I only mention this because I chose not to volunteer my findings, I feel it's only going to hurt my cause here. Since I had a very minor mod (intake) installed, I think it's just better to play dumb and get them to clear the code and/or check the vacuum lines if there really is an unmetered air leak.

Sometimes guiding the dealership helps, but others seem to take offence or don't take you seriously. There is probably a negative perception that customers "Google" everything and know nothing, likely some truth to that, though.

 

[colnago1331]

I have come to a point in my life that I make more than 95% of people in this country so I no longer need to buy another overpriced German car to brag, now I have focused on buying what makes sense and makes me happy and overpriced German cars make me very unhappy when they need to be maintained and repaired.

Says the guy with an Audi R8. I kid! I kid!

I've found that to some degree learning how to take care of your own German (or Korean or Japanese or [insert car nationality here]) car helps ease the pain of maintaining (and sometimes even repairing) them. Just knowing how to do (and actually doing) things like oil changes and brake pad / rotor replacements can save a fair amount of money. And it helps you get to know your car better. But, you have to want to do those things too.

Back to the OP. You will rarely be wrong by underestimating the intelligence of the average American. I hate to say that, but it's becoming more true by the day.

This was my gut reaction when I saw the topic to begin with too. I'm surprised by the people who are surprised by the stupidity of the average car driver / owner. "You got rid of your S6 and replaced it with a Kia? That sucks, man. I'm sorry." This is not an uncommon reaction when people hear that I did, in fact, dump my S6 for the Stinger. I realized long ago that true car enthusiasts make a up a very small percentage of the general population. Almost everyone basically sees their car as little more than a way to get from A to B. Once I came to this realization, my life got a little less frustrating.

 

[RedCal]

It's very true that it goes both ways, you can google just about anything to "confirm" something, and everyone with a keyboard is an "expert" toss in the fact that lots of people "find" problems, or at least will "inherit" things that lots of other people report as true and expand it to made it into a massive problem (not just talking about cars) I think you have walk the line between informed, but not an expert, and "suggest" things. I like to put it in a question, where you aren't challenging their knowledge (or lack of) but you didn't just fall of the back of a truck, and have some idea of how things work. Do you think it could be driveline lash? It seams like a common complaint, What do you think it is? Plus I think many mechanics are sensitive to being seen as trying to rip people off (some of them have earned it)

Now at the end of the day people are people so YMMV....

 

[Kamauxx]

Says the guy with an Audi R8. I kid! I kid!

I've found that to some degree learning how to take care of your own German (or Korean or Japanese or [insert car nationality here]) car helps ease the pain of maintaining (and sometimes even repairing) them. Just knowing how to do (and actually doing) things like oil changes and brake pad / rotor replacements can save a fair amount of money. And it helps you get to know your car better. But, you have to want to do those things too.


This was my gut reaction when I saw the topic to begin with too. I'm surprised by the people who are surprised by the stupidity of the average car driver / owner. "You got rid of your S6 and replaced it with a Kia? That sucks, man. I'm sorry." This is not an uncommon reaction when people hear that I did, in fact, dump my S6 for the Stinger. I realized long ago that true car enthusiasts make a up a very small percentage of the general population. Almost everyone basically sees their car as little more than a way to get from A to B. Once I came to this realization, my life got a little less frustrating.

Just curious, how old was your S6?

 

[colnago1331]

Just curious, how old was your S6?

It was a 2013 with ~87,500 miles. I loved the car; it was an absolute beast. And a previous owner had already fixed the biggest problem by replacing the turbo screens. (The original factor screens had a tendency to clog up, which resulted in oil starvation with the turbos, which ultimately resulted in failure of the turbos.)

 

[Kamauxx]

It was a 2013 with ~87,500 miles. I loved the car; it was an absolute beast. And a previous owner had already fixed the biggest problem by replacing the turbo screens. (The original factor screens had a tendency to clog up, which resulted in oil starvation with the turbos, which ultimately resulted in failure of the turbos.)

I was hoping it was a C8 so we could get some comparisons to the Stinger. I'm sure the Stinger easily outshines a first year C7.

 

[colnago1331]

I was hoping it was a C8 so we could get some comparisons to the Stinger. I'm sure the Stinger easily outshines a first year C7.

Actually, if I were comparing new 2013 vs. new 2021, and ignoring price and warranty differences, the Audi wins in a heartbeat. It's more powerful and more luxurious. The only thing it's missing is 2021 tech. But if I bring those two things back into consideration, there's no way the Audi is 1.5x - 2x ($80k vs $40k for a GT . . . or even $50K for a GT2) the car the Stinger is.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I think the argument of knowing the car better than the service advisor goes both ways. Understandable that the advisors and mechanics won't be aware of every little issue and TSB, but some of them don't like to be guided. When my Mustang went in for a clack from the rear end, I left a note on my observations and findings because I know finding noises are probably one of the worst things to fix. I told them I thought it might be the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) due to the things that instigate the noise. I made the mistake of watching the dashcam footage after and their lead technician basically called me an internet jockey and that these are things I heard on the internet (to coin my term, driveline lash). To top it off, he thought the noise was coming from the front end. From that point I lost all confidence and ditched the car, too many stupid issues and a tremendous rattle trap to boot.

My attempts to have the sunroof in the Stinger rectified are well documented in threads here and to surmise, it was a large contributing factor to my not keeping the car. The fact that the corporate level refused to acknowledge it as a problem lead me to believe the warranty wasn't worth much if they don't fix customer complaints.

I have had a check engine light in the BMW since last week, I attribute it to the fact I had an open cone intake and the fact it was -30C for a week straight. I called to book it in to have it checked out and they blame the cold and the battery (over the phone). I'm certain the battery is fine, and the 2 hours straight of driving on Saturday should have topped up the charge completely. I've been on the factory airbox since Thursday so it should have reset by now. They'll be eating their words when the scan the codes and find the lean operating code I found, and nothing to do with the battery. I only mention this because I chose not to volunteer my findings, I feel it's only going to hurt my cause here. Since I had a very minor mod (intake) installed, I think it's just better to play dumb and get them to clear the code and/or check the vacuum lines if there really is an unmetered air leak.

Sometimes guiding the dealership helps, but others seem to take offence or don't take you seriously. There is probably a negative perception that customers "Google" everything and know nothing, likely some truth to that, though.

Well put and said friend!

 

[YEH]

The The bmw dealer also damaged the front bumper while it was in and tried to say it was already there as well..

Been there...

As a former service director for Kia, I can testify to the vast superiority Kia has over SEVERAL brands. Their quality controls have gotten INCREDIBLY better. They came in as junk, like Honda did when they arrived. The radical shift from their abysmal introduction, to now is INSANE.

The reason why we are slighted by the ignorant is because Kia made an extraordinary transition once Hyundai bought in. Both companies ended up benefiting MASSIVELY in the long run. The change came in around 2004. Kia's running around from this time are getting 300k+ miles with extremely minor concerns.

The main issue is that people cannot wrap their heads around such rapid evolution in quality. 25 years to go from junk to reliable & super stylish is almost too good to be true. The fact is that it is true & some people cannot accept that we have a better car than Honda, Toyota, definitely Subaru & all the American offerings.

The time when Hyundai and Kia were junk was when Hyundai was using Mitsu powertrain components and Kia, Mazda (this was before Mazda improved its reliability).

Here is my bottom line. The brakes (both pads and rotors) are on the cheaper side and not meant to be used on a vehicle with this level of horsepower and weight to haul around. Kia "tricked" the customers by having "Brembo" written on calipers but not having higher level brakes. I have driven cars my friends own which are just as heavy if not heavier than my Stinger (E63-AMG, Hellcat, Mustang GT, Camaro ZL1), and none of them have these vibration problems. The car should not be shaking when applying brakes at 70mph or after fifteen minutes of highway driving.

Mustang GT doesn't have this problem and that is a "Grand touring" car. Maserati GranTurismo is a "grand touring" vehicle and doesn't have this issue. The problem is Kia and not the drivers. Trust me on that.

Kia should have used the European spec brakes (more expensive), but guess for Kia USA, it was a cost cutting measure (should have just foregone the licensing to Bremen and spent that $ on sturdier brake components).

The I30N uses stock (Euro) Optima brakes and they have been widely praised for resisting fade even on the track (no need to spend $ on licensing).

Actually, I think it's like that for the Canadian market too. The U.S. might be the only Kia market to get the 10/100 warranty.

Hyundai in Australia is only 5 years.

 

[YEH]

Wouldn't worry too much about what others think - there will always be the ill-informed/clueless, those livng in the past (there are old-timers who still think Toyotas are junk compared to the domestics) or just plain stupid.

The biggest indicator that impressions are changing are sales nos., ATP and incentive spending.

Hyundai's ATP and incentive spending is on the same level as Honda (last month, Hyundai's incentive spending was lower than Honda's).

Kia is not quite there yet, but in the last year has seen a sharp rise in its ATP (and reduction in incentives) due to the Telluride, K5 and new Sorento.

The Carnival and next Sportage should continue that trend.

Also kids/teens these days have a much different impression of Kia than those who came of age during the 1990s.

Judging by the huge number of Kia's and Hyundai's on the road, they are definitely doing something right.

I just wish Kia/Hyundai would put as much effort into improving their service department experience as they have in the design of their current vehicles.

H/K usually rank above average in JDP's CGI survey, but yeah, there are some real crappy dealerships.

 

[7Andrei7]

LOOOOOOOOOL! You should hear what people think about Kia/Hyundai in Europe. Complete trash! Still, I bought one, even though would have never even imagined it a few months before and got in the Kia dealership only by accident. It was in the same building as Alfa Romeo. The moment I saw the Stinger I just had to have it over the Giulia or the Arteon.

 

[Nocostinger]

LOOOOOOOOOL! You should hear what people think about Kia/Hyundai in Europe. Complete trash! Still, I bought one, even though would have never even imagined it a few months before and got in the Kia dealership only by accident. It was in the same building as Alfa Romeo. The moment I saw the Stinger I just had to have it over the Giulia or the Arteon.

The Giulia Quadrofoglio is AMAZING....when its running lol. I found it funny how some of the interior felt like Dodge parts and some of it felt very "2014 BMW". Had a client want one as his autocross car. That thing was incredible when it wasn't in limp mode for transmission or exhaust issues. He did some titanium catback system that made it sound like a 4 door Ferrari.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

People will always bash and trash talk on any brands. Whether it's Toyota, Ferrari, Kia, Jaguar, Ford, etc... there are always gonna be haters out there...

Like I said a while back... there are real problems in this world such as poverty, war, famine, etc... Who cares if someone is dissing your Kia you know? lmfao

 

[Revvdmedia]

People will always bash and trash talk on any brands. Whether it's Toyota, Ferrari, Kia, Jaguar, Ford, etc... there are always gonna be haters out there...

Like I said a while back... there are real problems in this world such as poverty, war, famine, etc... Who cares if someone is dissing your Kia you know? lmfao

I like to remind people that think that driving a BMW automatically makes you an a**hole, I drove like an a**hole long before owning the BMW and I drove similarly no matter what I drove. LOL

If there was a car that nobody had something negative to say about, everyone would be driving it.

 

[YEH]

LOOOOOOOOOL! You should hear what people think about Kia/Hyundai in Europe. Complete trash! Still, I bought one, even though would have never even imagined it a few months before and got in the Kia dealership only by accident. It was in the same building as Alfa Romeo. The moment I saw the Stinger I just had to have it over the Giulia or the Arteon.

While sure there are those who think that in Europe, nonetheless, there's a reason why H/K is the largest import automaker in Europe (now ahead of Ford and considerably ahead of Toyota).

H/K are also seen as a leader in BEVs among the more traditional automakers, with models like the Niro EV (only EV model to attain Tesla-like satisfaction rates) being huge sellers in Scandinavia.

Really wouldn't worry about the general masses (of which a big chunk are just ignorant, behind the times or not that bright).

What actually matters are the opinions of guys like Randy Pobst (race car driver) and the Original Venice Crew (the guys that worked on Shelby America) because that goes directly to the quality of the Stinger as a performance/handling machine.

It would be something if Pobst or the OVC dismissed the Stinger as a pretender (more style than substance), but both have given the Stinger a healthy dose of respect.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I like to remind people that think that driving a BMW automatically makes you an a**hole, I drove like an a**hole long before owning the BMW and I drove similarly no matter what I drove. LOL

If there was a car that nobody had something negative to say about, everyone would be driving it.

I remember being 19 with an e36 that I picked up all broken for $1800 and had to drop another almost $2000 in cash for parts to repair it with a family friend... everyone was calling me a spoiled rich kid or a pretentious snob while they were driving A BRAND NEW Yaris, Accord, Corolla, Camry, Focus, etc worth significantly more money... but in their brains [ BMW = RICH = TONS OF MONEY ] lmfao! When I told people the year or how much it cost they wouldn't believe me... but then again the majority of the people judging (whether at work or school or meeting up with friends somewhere ) were not into cars at all...

I remember one gal outside the store I was working at was asking how someone at 19 could be driving a BMW when her husband had to drop a quarter's salary as just a down payment... I'm like... well I've been working since I was 16, full time since I was 18, and I only pay a few hundred bucks a month for rent to my folks... and this entire car cost less than $4000... funny how my 1998 BMW M3 looked pretty sharp when parked next to her brand new 2013 320i base model... I guess in her head they were all around the same price lmfao... She thought my car cost $20k+ haha!

The entire time I owned that car (about 3 years) I still never had a chance to ever fix the AC or heat or the rear windows... or trunk... lmfao

 

[7Andrei7]

2K for an M3, regardless of year, is impressive
As for appearances, I am always amused by people who say BMW is the real driver's car while about 90% of them are 2.0 diesel with 130hp to 190hp (I'm talking about Europe). Only in the last couple of years have gasoline engines started to make a comeback here since cities started banning diesels in the city centres.
But, since about 95% of cars on the road in Europe have below 200hp, a 160hp diesel BMW seems quite sporty.

 

[Revvdmedia]

2K for an M3, regardless of year, is impressive
As for appearances, I am always amused by people who say BMW is the real driver's car while about 90% of them are 2.0 diesel with 130hp to 190hp (I'm talking about Europe). Only in the last couple of years have gasoline engines started to make a comeback here since cities started banning diesels in the city centres.
But, since about 95% of cars on the road in Europe have below 200hp, a 160hp diesel BMW seems quite sporty.

Another funny thing to note, in my younger years I used to view German car drivers as snobs too. It didn't help the driver's cause that they drove aggressively and stereotypically didn't use turn signals. I would think when I see a 318i or something similar that the drivers were just wannabe's who drive it based on the badge and couldn't afford a "real" BMW. Fast forward to now and I'm driving a 2 series, albeit with the inline 6 (I would not have touched a 4 banger), and I am totally satisfied with the "base" model, in fact the 2 series was a deliberate choice since I wanted something powerful and sporty, with a good build quality, but a smaller size. I'm sure lots of people see me in a 2 series and think "look at that poser, couldn't afford a 4 series," when in actuality I would take the 2 over the 4 any day, the only negative is that the 2 is missing some of the features of the 4. Of course the 8 series is a thing of beauty, but I just can't see any logical reason to drop 120K+ on something I drive year round through rain, snow and salt, even if it was within the budget.

Funny you note "driver's car" and BMW. Seems of late most reviewers say the newest BMWs aren't the driver's car they used to be, and the 2 series is the only one in the lineup that is closest to the driver's car roots they used to have. I attribute that mostly to the size. It seems refinement of all brands across the board have really numbed down the "driver's" feel of cars, too much isolation.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

2K for an M3, regardless of year, is impressive
As for appearances, I am always amused by people who say BMW is the real driver's car while about 90% of them are 2.0 diesel with 130hp to 190hp (I'm talking about Europe). Only in the last couple of years have gasoline engines started to make a comeback here since cities started banning diesels in the city centres.
But, since about 95% of cars on the road in Europe have below 200hp, a 160hp diesel BMW seems quite sporty.

Well $1800 plus another almost $2000 worth of parts to fix it up... the AC and heat still were never fixed along with some other problems... the two rear doors could not be opened from the outside plus the hood had trouble staying open without being held up lmfao!

Europe has some pretty tight and narrow roads though, right? Would be fun to have a light and zippy car to fool around with!!

Another funny thing to note, in my younger years I used to view German car drivers as snobs too. It didn't help the driver's cause that they drove aggressively and stereotypically didn't use turn signals. I would think when I see a 318i or something similar that the drivers were just wannabe's who drive it based on the badge and couldn't afford a "real" BMW. Fast forward to now and I'm driving a 2 series, albeit with the inline 6 (I would not have touched a 4 banger), and I am totally satisfied with the "base" model, in fact the 2 series was a deliberate choice since I wanted something powerful and sporty, with a good build quality, but a smaller size. I'm sure lots of people see me in a 2 series and think "look at that poser, couldn't afford a 4 series," when in actuality I would take the 2 over the 4 any day, the only negative is that the 2 is missing some of the features of the 4. Of course the 8 series is a thing of beauty, but I just can't see any logical reason to drop 120K+ on something I drive year round through rain, snow and salt, even if it was within the budget.

Funny you note "driver's car" and BMW. Seems of late most reviewers say the newest BMWs aren't the driver's car they used to be, and the 2 series is the only one in the lineup that is closest to the driver's car roots they used to have. I attribute that mostly to the size. It seems refinement of all brands across the board have really numbed down the "driver's" feel of cars, too much isolation.

Yupperz exactly! The majority of BMW's are no longer the driver-focused enthusiast machines that they once were. Then again though... the majority of cars on the market are simply status symbols with power and/or luxury... very few cars are made today for the driving enthusiast... heck I was reading an article on the Ferrari forums talking about how even the vast majority of the new Ferrari's are really just for wealthy and high-class doctors, lawyers, business owners, etc... they no longer have a soul or thrill or drive... most cars are not raw anymore... I will admit I genuinely miss how much fun and connection I felt with both my e36 and my 3rd-gen wrx... sure the Stinger is faster and significantly more luxurious... but it is missing something and I can't put my ?? on it... idk...