Alex On Autos back at it again!!
- Thread starter Bigtam9
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shaggystinger
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Alex....you're obsessed and we love it 
Waynerm002
2500 Posts Club!
Alex does some great reviews.
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AnyVare
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First, love AoA and his reviews. But watching this latest video really makes me think KIA missed their goal of competing with top brand names. Why? Alex compared a Stinger to an Acura TLX, Buick Regal, Chrysler 300, Audi A5 Sportback. And even though he says it's his favorite, makes many statements about it NOT being the best at most things. I'm really struggling with $52K + Markup for a Stinger......
Take your time and shop.
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Waynerm002
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KIA made the Stinger to be a GT car, it lists the cars it competes with as the luxury brands 4 door hatch models and some that are not hatch. It states the areas in which it beats, competes or matches, if you compare them you will find the same. It’s natural as we think about those other brands that we start to look at other things however, taken as a whole the Stinger is a solid performer that does what it was designed to do. KIA has a brand has a ways to go before it will compete at that level. Let me restate that, they can if they choose to compete at that level because they have the talent to do so. Before that happens, the market perception has to change as well as the dealership experience has to be improved. As Alex said you are buying a car and not a brand. Folks that buy into a brand do so based on the entire experience they get for owning that car and spend a lot of money on those vehicles. For some the vehicle experience is more important than the brand as they will do their own maintenance and relay on the warrranty to take care of the other things.
Is the Audi A/S5’s $10K+ price or the BMW 4 330/440 Grand Coupe $12K+ price worth it when you see what the Stinger does at its price point? Is the dealership experience worth that cost (when you think how many times you will visit them for service)? What stick in a lot of people’s mind is KIA from the early days, once more people accept that it is not and that they make solid performing, quality, reliable vehicles, then KIA can transform everything else to compete at that level. For now, we have the Stinger that can hold its own against the big boys, in the future there will be sportier, more luxurious cars that will compete directly. We just have to wait a bit more.
The markup thing is going to go away, hang in there.
Is the Audi A/S5’s $10K+ price or the BMW 4 330/440 Grand Coupe $12K+ price worth it when you see what the Stinger does at its price point? Is the dealership experience worth that cost (when you think how many times you will visit them for service)? What stick in a lot of people’s mind is KIA from the early days, once more people accept that it is not and that they make solid performing, quality, reliable vehicles, then KIA can transform everything else to compete at that level. For now, we have the Stinger that can hold its own against the big boys, in the future there will be sportier, more luxurious cars that will compete directly. We just have to wait a bit more.
The markup thing is going to go away, hang in there.
Kia Stinger
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At this point I don't think you should be considering paying anything over MSRP at all. Like the others are saying, just be patient if the dealers in your area are still asking for over MSRP. Or travel a little...
Kia Stinger
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Fergalis
Member
I agree - he always packs in a lot and I think gives neutral and solid appraisals. I get what he is saying about the Stinger and its competition.
What I think creates that hint of diffidence about the Stinger in the US, is its pricing. New Zealand is the land of 'Expensive' new cars with most brands carrying considerably higher price tags than similar models available in continental North America. Because of this, a great majority of cars here tend to be purchased from a large fleet of relatively affordable used imports sourced from Japan.
Strangely the NZ top model Stinger GT-Sport works out at more than $1k cheaper than it's US GT2 cousin, after the currencies are converted, which is highly unusual. The 2.0T GT-Line Stinger here is identically priced to a fully kitted V6 Accord (10th Gen not released here yet), and while the 3.3TT GT-Sport has a 7.5% margin above the GT-Line, it still represents excellent value for what it offers as a package, and certainly WAY less than similarly equipt models from Audi/MB/BMW/Lexus. It's clear Kia US sees it's GT Stingers as being more 'luxury' aspirational, and prices accordingly, so I think Alex's analysis spot on.
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From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
corradoMR2
Active Member
And especially true in Canada where a top-spec GT Limited AWD at 52K Cdn comes out to 41.6K USD or 10K cheaper. Not sure what Kia US' pricing strategy is but it's surely not as aggressive with the luxury competition risking sales. We'll see...
What's he talking about starting at around 15:35 regarding ability to adjust the rear-wheel bias in the AWD system? The only thing I'm aware of is the marketing statement that Sport mode sends more power to the rear wheels (details undocumented, to my knowledge).
MarkyMark
Active Member
In my area (Beaverton, OR) the local dealer already has window sticker prices lower than MSRP. Not by much, ($500 - $750) so they are barely willing to give the customer the Factory to Dealer incentive, but it's certainly not a mark up situation.
Kia Stinger
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At least we're seeing improvement - and that'll only get better with time. Right?
MarkyMark
Active Member
Absolutely it will get better with time. Kia probably has 3 more months of filling it's channels world-wide, if not a wee bit more. Once up to full volume production (if they aren't already there now) they will do everything possible to keep that manufacturing line at full production. Kia will want to maximize their component buying power and labor economies of scale the best they can. So once the channel is full, then Kia will continue to examine the sell-through rate. And typically, year-end is when the rebate deals arrive, and beyond that Factory to Dealer incentives to keep cars going out the door cutting consumers a "deal."
Around this time next year the year-end clearance rebates may be over, but it's then the time when the 2019's need to keep being produced and you'll run into people saying "I wasn't planning on purchasing, I just stopped by but boy, I got such a great deal I couldn't resist."
The dealers will likely have a lot more money to play with to sell cars, and there will likely be a plethora of lease deals on virtually every configuration.
I'm waiting. Saving and waiting. ; )
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
MarkyMark
Active Member
MotorWeek (with John Davis) has their Kia Stinger GT review up for viewing. Their reviews are pretty generic, and they often complain about various aspects of just about any car except for BMW, Audi or Mercedes, but I was pleasantly surprised by their absolutely glowing review of the Stinger! Link:
I would note that some online review folks give the Stinger a general slight that it's no European sports sedan - that it is a long ways off from a BMW or Audi vehicle. But then they knock the Stinger they rarely give specifics. They say things like "... but let's face it, Kia has a long way to go before being in the heritage class of a BMW." Seriously, what on earth does that even mean? Track times and course runs have been impressive for Stinger across the board. The only slight on the performance side is some note it's software handling characteristics when pushed on a track. However, others note it's just not super stiff and irritating like some German vehicles, and unless on a track, is a fantastic riding and tracking vehicle.
The more upscale and professional you go with the reviewers (moving into Motor Trend, or Motor Week or Car & Audi - errr, Car & Driver, etc...) the more likely you are to get a more objective review. Perhaps the most objective YouTube startup guy is Alex on Autos.
The big boy auto mags test every car under the sun. Have professional drivers, and aren't just enthusiasts with Go Pro cameras and a good camera presence, that seem easily swayed by luxury monikers. Maybe some of these guys own luxury cars, so they don't like the idea that Kia is stepping on their luxury-based egocentric toes (it often seems this way).
Luxury label or not, I just want the best performing car for the money. Amazingly enough, it seems to be Kia and it's Stinger that fits that bill like no other car in a long, long, time. I had high hopes that maybe Ford would do something with all their tech and give Lincoln something. Or maybe Buick's new Regal would fit the bill, or Mazda would step into this space?
Along comes Kia and bam, they showed up at the right time, with the right vehicle for the right buyer. Perhaps the thing makes me - and others - so intrigued with the Stinger, is Kia nailed the practice side of things. I've owned a hatch before and they are fantastic! Throw in a dresser, a table, and chairs, whatever, it can be done. They are amazingly practical. And the fact they did't scale the vehicle down to try and be a small single person commuter "I just wanna drive a luxury labeled BMW 3 series" car, or didn't overshoot the mark with trying to a Chrysler 300 vehicle, I'm just really amazed at how they nailed functional with performance. Bravo Kia.
Okay, back ta work for me!
The more upscale and professional you go with the reviewers (moving into Motor Trend, or Motor Week or Car & Audi - errr, Car & Driver, etc...) the more likely you are to get a more objective review. Perhaps the most objective YouTube startup guy is Alex on Autos.
The big boy auto mags test every car under the sun. Have professional drivers, and aren't just enthusiasts with Go Pro cameras and a good camera presence, that seem easily swayed by luxury monikers. Maybe some of these guys own luxury cars, so they don't like the idea that Kia is stepping on their luxury-based egocentric toes (it often seems this way).
Luxury label or not, I just want the best performing car for the money. Amazingly enough, it seems to be Kia and it's Stinger that fits that bill like no other car in a long, long, time. I had high hopes that maybe Ford would do something with all their tech and give Lincoln something. Or maybe Buick's new Regal would fit the bill, or Mazda would step into this space?
Along comes Kia and bam, they showed up at the right time, with the right vehicle for the right buyer. Perhaps the thing makes me - and others - so intrigued with the Stinger, is Kia nailed the practice side of things. I've owned a hatch before and they are fantastic! Throw in a dresser, a table, and chairs, whatever, it can be done. They are amazingly practical. And the fact they did't scale the vehicle down to try and be a small single person commuter "I just wanna drive a luxury labeled BMW 3 series" car, or didn't overshoot the mark with trying to a Chrysler 300 vehicle, I'm just really amazed at how they nailed functional with performance. Bravo Kia.
Okay, back ta work for me!
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Waynerm002
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A lot of folks can't accept change. They seem to think a business would keep being the same, year after year without improvement. Even when they know they loved the look of the car before they knew what it was, for some, they see the badge and lose interest and won't even drive the car. I know some folks like that. Took me buying the Optima and them having to go someplace and me picking them up to realize what the car came with to learn how much the brand has improved. Those that know how into cars I am think it must be really something special for you to get a KIA then they drive one and some are now KIA owners.
I tell folks to how good the car is but also tell them to go get their BMW and Audi experience, maybe it will work for them but they typically end up with a 3 series with less options but they are happy to be driving around with the badge while I'm happy to be driving with a lot more features and options for less money.
I tell folks to how good the car is but also tell them to go get their BMW and Audi experience, maybe it will work for them but they typically end up with a 3 series with less options but they are happy to be driving around with the badge while I'm happy to be driving with a lot more features and options for less money.
MarkyMark
Active Member
A thought on BMW for a moment: There are a LOT of people who drive 320i's. I say drive, because so many people lease them. These folks once drove Corolla's, but they are divorced or single and want to finally say they have arrived, or show they are successful. BMW has made the 3-series the gold standard for these people - and there are a lot of them out there. That's not bad, it's just out there and they could be stepping into other vehicles that do a lot more, provide a lot more, or save them a lot of money. The badge is king for them.
BMW has built a slug of their cars for these people, as much of what made BMW the "Ultimate Driving Machine" is flat out gone. Their driving characteristics in a lot of their cars is just gone. Really sad...
That said, is it just me or has BMW's entire look become quite stale? All their cars are beginning to look quite similar, and the dash continues to be that stodgy, conservative black on black more or less. It's as if they've taken VW's playbook and said, "all shall be the same." I get that it brands and shows off the brand quickly and easily to everyone. I get it, but it puts marketing above passion for the vehicle. And then there is Audi, which is about as stodgy a luxury vehicle as I can get into. At least Mercedes shows a wee bit of flair, while providing that luxury feel in and out.
Kia Stinger
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I've felt the same way. Their exteriors progress VERY slowly - and their interiors don't see any design progress at all. Bearly noticeable. It's a little too Plain Jane for me and I figured it would eventually have a more luxurious feel inside - but it never happened...
MarkyMark
Active Member
Okay, it's not just me then! Someone recently described their handling characteristics as being in "crisis" (AKA Dumbing down the driving experience for the average Joe that just wants the BMW badge), and indeed, the body styles are stale and interiors are very plane and drab. It's never really conveyed "luxury" to me, but they and Audi do convey German stubborn and stodgy, and slow to change (stubborn again) quite well...
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
