Horsepower explained

[Dr_jitsu]

The V6 Stinger makes 365 hp, but is actually faster than that. There are 2 reasons, one is torque.

The Stinger makes very good torque. More importantly, the power band is huge.

At 1300 rpm the Stinger is making full torque power. That power band is huge. The 3.3 makes good power between 1300 and 6000 or so rpm's.

What this means is that the car is more powerful than your typical car making the same amount of horse power

 

[MerlintheMad]

The TT make the largest part of that happen. Max torque is between 1300 and 4500 RPM, so I've read.

 

[Nuthadey]

The V6 Stinger makes 365 hp, but is actually faster than that. There are 2 reasons, one is torque.

The Stinger makes very good torque. More importantly, the power band is huge.

At 1300 rpm the Stinger is making full torque power. That power band is huge. The 3.3 makes good power between 1300 and 6000 or so rpm's.

What this means is that the car is more powerful than your typical car making the same amount of horse power

Is that your explanation or were you hoping for one of us to explain it to you?

 

[SteveCo]

The V6 Stinger makes 365 hp, but is actually faster than that.

How 'fast' is a HP?

There are 2 reasons, one is torque.

HP is simply a calculated product of torque at a certain RPM. (376 ft/lb torque x 5100 RPM)/5252 = 365 HP.

What this means is that the car is more powerful than your typical car making the same amount of horse power

'Power' (expressed as HP) will be the same. How subjectively 'fast' the car feels is a combination of many factors, including weight and gearing, as well as engine performance.

 

[StungBlueGT2]

The V6 Stinger makes 365 hp, but is actually faster than that. There are 2 reasons, one is torque.

The Stinger makes very good torque. More importantly, the power band is huge.

At 1300 rpm the Stinger is making full torque power. That power band is huge. The 3.3 makes good power between 1300 and 6000 or so rpm's.

What this means is that the car is more powerful than your typical car making the same amount of horse power

Yes that's one reason, but its also because Kia significantly underrated the HP/TQ numbers on our car. Plenty of dynos confirmed that stock Stingers produce about 330-340whp(~400bhp) & 380-390wtq(~450btq).

 

[eflyguy]

Do we have another potential Jason Fenske amongst us?

 

[Dr_jitsu]

How 'fast' is a HP?

HP is simply a calculated product of torque at a certain RPM. (376 ft/lb torque x 5100 RPM)/5252 = 365 HP.

'Power' (expressed as HP) will be the same. How subjectively 'fast' the car feels is a combination of many factors, including weight and gearing, as well as engine performance.

Lets put it this way: "Horsepower" will be the same but the 1/4 mile, 0 to 60 and trap speed will not be the same.

Yes that's one reason, but its also because Kia significantly underrated the HP/TQ numbers on our car. Plenty of dynos confirmed that stock Stingers produce about 330-340whp(~400bhp) & 380-390wtq(~450btq).

Correct. It may take a while for the aftermarket to build up, but there is a lot of potential in this motor. Right now it has small turbos Eventually it will run larger, maybe a GT30. The bigger turbos will help up top, where this motor is week.

What is the bottom end of this engine like? How much power can this car make (and of course properly tuned) before it bends a rod. The 2jz made nearly 900 on a stock bottom end. The Metzger motor made 600 on pump and 800 on race gas.

Is that your explanation or were you hoping for one of us to explain it to you?

I was hoping to have a mature and informative discussion about this motor. I know very little about it.

 

[Hockster]

All I know about it is that wheel HP is just crank HP after taxes.

 

[Manaz]

The V6 Stinger makes 365 hp, but is actually faster than that. There are 2 reasons, one is torque.

The Stinger makes very good torque. More importantly, the power band is huge.

At 1300 rpm the Stinger is making full torque power. That power band is huge. The 3.3 makes good power between 1300 and 6000 or so rpm's.

What this means is that the car is more powerful than your typical car making the same amount of horse power

There's no such thing as "torque power". Torque and power are related (power is effectively torque times revs times a constant). There's a power band that equates to that torque curve, yes.

The quoted power figure though is PEAK power, which is quite high in the rev range. That will impact the top speed, but not acceleration. What matters for acceleration is torque - at any given point in the rev range, torque defines the engines ability to accelerate.

For the power band (where the engine "feels most powerful" more important is the area under the torque curve. The fact that the 3.3L Stinger develops peak torque from 1,300 rpm to 4,500 means there's a LOT of area under that curve - and that's what makes the Stinger "so fast" (where we really mean how quickly it accelerates).

 

[Manaz]

Lets put it this way: "Horsepower" will be the same but the 1/4 mile, 0 to 60 and trap speed will not be the same.

Actually, peak horsepower is largely what determines trap speed.

 

[Cooshman]

Seeing that the turbos on the car are smaller would also explain the PEAK TQ numbers down low. The compromise with that is that smaller turbos efficiency are in the lower end, and become less efficient at higher RPMs or speed. There is really where the PURE turbo upgrade or others could improve here. You would shift the power band to the right, lose lower PEAK power, but gain it on the top.

Looking forward to seeing where those aftermarket kits are heading.

 

[eflyguy]

I was hoping to have a mature and informative discussion about this motor. I know very little about it.

Watch these, then report back..

 

[turboAWD]

Having had 2 cars now with low end torque, and one with higher end torque and one that was modified / peak shifted as suggested, I would say this:
-for in-city driving, quick acceleration, etc - you want low end torque. Higher end torque / peak hp is only for 1/4 mile and maybe track or "Mexico" driving.

Mind you, low end torque is harder on transmissions, so it's always a tradeoff.

I noticed this most with my '05 Legacy GT - with the stock VF40 stage 2, it was a instant-response monster in town from 2500-5000 rpm. I could zoom around people all the time. But then VF40s started dying left and right. So I get a 16g instead before it died and took my engine with it - higher peak power, but doesn't spool up quite as fast, and not as low in the rpm range. Now I had to pre-plan all my accelerations a bit more, because there definitely was a big of lag. Yes, it pulls harder, and right to redline, but it didn't hit as quickly or as hard.

I love the low-end grunt of the Stinger - 2nd gear in town is almost scary at times.. I can't imagine what it'll be like with a jb4.. I'm not doing a turbo upgrade unless there's some amazing reason for it. 700-800 hp isn't it for me, if it reduces low end response.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

The old saying is, torque gets you going. Horse Power gets you going very fast.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Actually, peak horsepower is largely what determines trap speed.

Correct. In a Mexican roll on you will be starting from 40-60 mph and typically going to about 130. That is where the bigger turbos shine.

With bigger turbos you will have lots more power up top.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Actually, peak horsepower is largely what determines trap speed.

Correct. It is also what wins Mexico roll on's. The Supra guys don't make big power until they are over 4lk rpms, and the powerband goes to nearly 9k rpms.

The good guys know how to stay in the power band. The Stinger power band is very, very different, but with bigger turbos should make a lot of power.

 

[Menissalt]

Watch these, then report back..

While we're bringing up Engineering explained

 

[KingLamoni]

Yes that's one reason, but its also because Kia significantly underrated the HP/TQ numbers on our car. Plenty of dynos confirmed that stock Stingers produce about 330-340whp(~400bhp) & 380-390wtq(~450btq).

What's the difference between whp and HP?

 

[SteveCo]

What's the difference between whp and HP?

Engine HP is the rating at the crankshaft - wheel HP is after drivetrain losses.

 

[turboAWD]

Engine HP is the rating at the crankshaft - wheel HP is after drivetrain losses.

Correct. A dyno measures whp (wheel horse power). "Typical" (hotly debated) drivetrain losses are something like 10-15% for FWD, 10-18% for RWD, 17-25% for AWD. Just roughly: a 3.3TT Stinger engine might have 400 hp when tested all by itself (removed from the car on a stand) - that's "chp" - crank horsepower. Chp is the number you see in all the magazines, manufacturer's claims, etc. It's obviously the higher number, so they'll quote that.

Using a 20% drivetrain loss (friction, etc) for an AWD Stinger, 80 of those hp get turned into heat, and there's only 320 hp measured at the wheels. An RWD Stinger might measure (400 - 10% = 400 - 40 = 360) 360 hp measured at the wheels. Of course, those are the "worst" and "best" cases. For the Stinger, it might be 15% RWD, 20% AWD so that the numbers are much closer. Or not. You'll get all kinds of debate over the "actual" number, and it's hard to know, because you'd have to remove the engine from the car to get the REAL chp value, THEN dyno it in a given car to get the whp value.

And each car might be slightly different due to manufacturing tolerances. If the typical Stinger has 390 chp +- 5% (min 370, max 410, roughly) and RWD losses between 10-13% and AWD losses 17-20%, then the worst combination - 20% AWD with 370chp = 296 whp. Best case, RWD 10%, 410 to start = 370 whp. The guy with 296 whp would complain he can't get the same 1/4 mile as everyone else, and the 370 whp guy would be declared a "factory freak". Yet they're both "within spec". They all got at least 365 chp, as advertised.