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You don't need expensive engine oil

arencambre

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I'm surprised at the posts in here where some claim we need some kind of fancy engine oil. In supporting this theory, I am seeing little besides folklore and oil-marketers’ propaganda.

The instructions in the owner's manual are clear. For example, on page 583 of my owners manual, it says that for my 3.3L twin turbo engine, I need "Full synthetic SAE 5W-30 ACEA A5/B5". That's a European standard, but thankfully there's a footnote 3 further clarifies that "API Latest (ILSAC latest)" is also fine. As of now, API latest is SP, and ILSAC latest is GF-6A. (There's an ILSAC GF-6B, but it is only for a 0-16W oil. Not applicable.)

You know what meets ILSAC GF-6A and API SP? Walmart Super Tech Full Synthetic. That is almost the least expensive oil you can get.

A pretty label or oil-marketers’ propaganda aren't necessary. They just feed superstitions. Simply use what meets the spec. That's all you need.
 
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MerlintheMad

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West Jordan, Y00TAW
Kia service uses full synthetic now, since January. I don't even ask what "brand", because whatever it is goes with the warranty.
 

JSolo

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Mobil 1 0w30, $24.x+tax at wally world. Not that I care for mobil 1, but it meets specs. Don't believe pennzoil has a 0w-30 oil yet. Either way, walmart, amazon, etc. Good enough.
 
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Devin

Sustaining Member
876
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Seattle-ish
I'm surprised at the posts in here where some claim we need some kind of fancy engine oil. In supporting this theory, I am seeing little besides folklore and oil-marketers’ propaganda.

The instructions in the owner's manual are clear. For example, on page 583 of my owners manual, it says that for my 3.3L twin turbo engine, I need "Full synthetic SAE 5W-30 ACEA A5/B5". That's a European standard, but thankfully there's a footnote 3 further clarifies that "API Latest (ILSAC latest)" is also fine. As of now, API latest is SP, and ILSAC latest is GF-6A. (There's an ILSAC GF-6B, but it is only for a 0-16W oil. Not applicable.)

You know what meets ILSAC GF-6A and API SP? Walmart Super Tech Full Synthetic. That is almost the least expensive oil you can get.

A pretty label or oil-marketers’ propaganda aren't necessary. They just feed superstitions. Simply use what meets the spec. That's all you need.
I haven't seen an oil argument in months.
 

StingerbyAdoom

Stinger Enthusiast
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Actually cheaper than Supertech at my local Walmart. I've been using Supertech in my truck(s) for a few years now, good stuff.

and if you are tuned, Use this version. Not only does it meet all standards that the car requires in the manual, but it is just a little thicker so it will stand up to higher boost loads better.

 

MerlintheMad

Sustaining Member
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West Jordan, Y00TAW
Was there a time when full synthetic wasn’t recommend for Stinger engines?
Even the owners manual doesn't say anything about "recommended" full synthetic. This was when I first noticed the change, 30 March this year.
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5tinger

Active Member
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ILSAC & API alone are both low standards.

At the minimum try to run a Dexos 1 Gen 2/3 approved oil.

Although higher quality standards such as MB 229.5 would be even better.

The TTV6 under the hood generates large amounts of heat.

More importantly are regular change intervals.
 
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D.J.

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The TTV6 under the hood generates large amounts of heat.

More importantly are regular change intervals.
Large amounts of heat? or higher than normal temperatures? Are you seeing higher than normal temperatures VS all other turbocharged internal combustion engines? My coolant temperature always sits at a very happy ~100 deg C - oil temperature can't be very far off that. (my OBDII data (app) doesn't have oil temperature, just coolant temperature).

I totally agree about the oil change intervals.
 

D.J.

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I always found this humorous.

My Canadian 2018 Stinger owners manual recommends mineral oil from "Total Quarts" (no recommendation for synthetic)
But no dealers in CANADA (or possibly north America) use this oil...

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Devin

Sustaining Member
876
750
98
Seattle-ish
Search engines still turn it up when you’re searching for oil advice.
True, but searches go back to the epoch so you'll see a lot of old arguments. Plus it really doesn't matter what anyone says on any forum, what matters is data being properly interpreted. Chances are you are not going to find that here (or any other car forum).

I just let the dealer use whatever makes them happy and keeps my warranty intact.
 

arencambre

Member
42
17
8
ILSAC & API alone are both low standards.
I don't follow your logic.

I am granting Kia the presumption of rationality, so I am assuming soundness in Kia's methodology for determining its standard for engine oil. The question is not a vague and subjective low vs. high, it's simply "does it meet Kia's standard?"

If the oil is ILSAC GF-6A and API SP, it meets Kia's standard. It is appropriate. There is no higher standard to meet.

If you wish to pay for pretty labels or to pay the salaries of boutique-oil marketers, well, I guess you can do that, but they have nothing to do with properly maintaining your car.
 
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Stiletto

Sustaining Member +
252
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Virginia Beach, VA
I'm surprised at the posts in here where some claim we need some kind of fancy engine oil. In supporting this theory, I am seeing little besides folklore and oil-marketers’ propaganda.

The instructions in the owner's manual are clear. For example, on page 583 of my owners manual, it says that for my 3.3L twin turbo engine, I need "Full synthetic SAE 5W-30 ACEA A5/B5". That's a European standard, but thankfully there's a footnote 3 further clarifies that "API Latest (ILSAC latest)" is also fine. As of now, API latest is SP, and ILSAC latest is GF-6A. (There's an ILSAC GF-6B, but it is only for a 0-16W oil. Not applicable.)

You know what meets ILSAC GF-6A and API SP? Walmart Super Tech Full Synthetic. That is almost the least expensive oil you can get.

A pretty label or oil-marketers’ propaganda aren't necessary. They just feed superstitions. Simply use what meets the spec. That's all you need.
Have you watched or read any independent studies? Even the Amsoil study from 2013 can be cited as they used the same ASTM standards that AAA uses. A cursory review will show that some brands are superior. The issue with the AAA studies is that they don't reveal brands, but clearly show synthetic is better than conventional oil.
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arencambre

Member
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Have you watched or read any independent studies? Even the Amsoil study from 2013 can be cited as they used the same ASTM standards that AAA uses. A cursory review will show that some brands are superior. The issue with the AAA studies is that they don't reveal brands, but clearly show synthetic is better than conventional oil.
I am lost on your point.

First, you cite "independent studies", yet your example appears to be oil-marketer propaganda. Second, your reference to synthetic oil is not germane because that kind of oil is simply what Kia requires. At best, your mention of synthetic is an irrelevant comparison between 1. what the manufacturer requires in our vehicle and 2. a kind of oil we cannot use in our vehicle.

I think what you mean to say is there may be something better than ILSAC GF-6A. OK, let's start at first base: you first need to substantiate the problem with ILSAC GF-6A that needs fixing. What is it? Until you can get past that, you're simply trading in superstition and folklore.
 

stoopid

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...let's start at first base: you first need to substantiate the problem with ILSAC GF-6A that needs fixing. What is it? Until you can get past that, you're simply trading in superstition and folklore.
This. I've read a lot of these threads over the years, and similar topics that are wrought with anecdotal evidence/opinion. There's definitely science out there that measured and would support any conclusions reinforced by their data. I'm not aware of any study that clearly concludes the standards in place are erroneous or insufficient. There's higher standards intended for extreme use cases, but that doesn't imply the standards for everyone else are poor/insufficient.

Ultimately, sending oil off for testing after a bunch of miles and seeing if it's still good (and by how much) is really the best means of determining our individual oil needs. If not willing/able to do this, then follow manufacturer's recommendations.
 

Devin

Sustaining Member
876
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98
Seattle-ish
This. I've read a lot of these threads over the years, and similar topics that are wrought with anecdotal evidence/opinion. There's definitely science out there that measured and would support any conclusions reinforced by their data. I'm not aware of any study that clearly concludes the standards in place are erroneous or insufficient. There's higher standards intended for extreme use cases, but that doesn't imply the standards for everyone else are poor/insufficient.

Ultimately, sending oil off for testing after a bunch of miles and seeing if it's still good (and by how much) is really the best means of determining our individual oil needs. If not willing/able to do this, then follow manufacturer's recommendations.
We used these guys in the SHO community (easy way to find out if your connecting rod bearings were wearing prematurely). Anyone still use them?

 

arencambre

Member
42
17
8
Ultimately, sending oil off for testing after a bunch of miles and seeing if it's still good (and by how much) is really the best means of determining our individual oil needs.
On one hand, I like the desire to be objective. On the other hand, what standard are you testing to?

Let me give a counterpoint: There are other industries that have created testing regimes under the pretense of helping people objectively determine the need for something. The problem is that while the tests may give objective data, the standards against which the data is interpreted are superstitious or counterfactual. "Oh, your test says 6. Well, we recommend that anyone testing below 8 does X." Yet they never have an objective basis to justify why they set the bar at 8 or why 6 is in any way problematic. This is just a ruse to sell you X.

So back to the original point: First base is discovering a problem to solve. What is the problem with ILSAC GF-6A? What is the problem with Kia's recommended maintenance schedules?

Do we really think the manufacturer of our own vehicles, who have next to no interest in selling us oil changes, and which benefits from a reputation of long-lasting, reliable vehicles, is lying or incompetent?
 
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