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Using the actual key to unlock the door

Discussion in 'Kia Stinger Technology Discussion' started by Legendsk, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Legendsk

    Legendsk United States Active Member

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    I decided I should do this at least once, so if it were ever necessary I could do it, even a moment of stress because I'm locked out and the FOB won't unlock the door.

    Carefully read the OM to see what it said, sadly not enough apparently. Pushing the button in with the key, so the cap could be lifted off was straight forward.

    The key fit just fine. Rotated it 1/4 turn counter-clockwise to unlock the door. The key turned just fine, could feel and hear mechanical things happening in the door. Pulled the handle to open the unlocked door? Nada! Handle pulls out okay, but door is still locked.

    Turned the key clockwise back to center then 1/4 turn more clockwise. Again it turned easily and I could hear things happening inside the door. Pulled the handle to open the locked(?) door, not expecting much. The alarm went off! Push the alarm button on the fob to turn off the alarm, NOPE! That now won't shut off the alarm? Turn the key back and forth to lock and unlock the car, still alarming. Neighbors starting to stick their heads out the door to see what's up. Pushed the black button on the handle to unlock the driver's door. That unlocked it and turned off the alarm?????

    Just to make sure fob is okay, tried later to engage the alarm with the key fob. Worked fine and shut off on the second alarm button push.

    At this point all I am sure of is that if the fob fails to unlock the car, I don't think I can unlock it with the key - although the key turns in the lock. . . . .

    I haven't tried putting the fob in a foil bag and taking just the key to the car and trying to unlock it to simulate a broken / lost fob. Perhaps if the key is used to "unlock" the door, the door handle button still needs to be pressed to complete the unlock process? Anyone else run into this? Surely I'm just doing it wrong somehow?
     
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  2. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 5000 Posts Club!

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    You're braver than I. "If it ain't broke, don't mess with it," has been my life's motto. I won't be messing with the metal key unless I have to. Which, as you surmised, will be when the key fob is dead to the world. I'm agreeing with you that your experiment was feckless because of the presence of a "live" key fob.
     
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  3. Berzerker

    Berzerker United States Active Member

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    I would think if the car detects the fob, the manual lock wouldn't work.
     
  4. Legendsk

    Legendsk United States Active Member

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    Okay, test #2. I removed the key from one of the fobs and put both fobs in a foil bag in the house. Popped the cap and unlocked the door with no problems. Pulled the handle and the door opened. The alarm began to hoot and without the fob, there doesn't seem to be any way to turn it off or disable it. I hurried into the house to get to one of the fobs to shut off the alarm, but when the 30 seconds were up it quit on its own. The OM says it will re-hoot for 2 more cycles, but before the second cycle I had the fob out of the bag and pushed the alarm button. The car should be able to be started by pressing the dead / broken / missing fob metal rim on the start button. Apparently, the car will read the RFID of the fob even if it is dead or broken. I guess if it's missing, call Uber or the Kia roadside emergency service number?
     
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  5. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 5000 Posts Club!

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    You're taking this trouble for the team.

    Btw, a "foil bag" won't block the radio signal between the key fob and the car; only a faraday bag or box will do that.
     
  6. Legendsk

    Legendsk United States Active Member

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    Thanks for your response, MerlintheMad.

    I'm really not defending tin foil hats. I do believe they have their place in the world, much like religion. Some folks feel much safer in their warm embrace. However a foil bag is by definition a Faraday cage or bag, if the foil is electrically conductive. Here's a snippit from Wikipedia's discourse on Faraday cages:

    "A common misconception is that a Faraday cage provides full blockage or attenuation; this is not true. The reception or transmission of radio waves, a form of electromagnetic radiation, to or from an antenna within a Faraday cage is heavily attenuated or blocked by the cage; however, a Faraday cage has varied attenuation depending on wave form, frequency or distance from receiver/transmitter, and receiver/transmitter power. Near-field high-powered frequency transmissions like HF RFID are more likely to penetrate. Solid cages generally attenuate fields over a broader range of frequencies than mesh cages."

    For the purposes of this experiment, an easy test was put both fobs in 'the' foil bag and push the fob buttons to see if the car will lock or unlock. It doesn't. So for me, it is equivalent to the fob being absent for the key test. Your mileage may vary. . . .
     
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  7. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 5000 Posts Club!

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    And now I know more. Thanks! :thumbup:
     
  8. Manaz

    Manaz Australia 1000 Posts Club! Staff Member Moderator

    Be aware that the device inside the faraday cage must be electrically isolated from the cage - or the cage acts as an antenna :)

    Foil/paper/foil layers should do enough to provide adequate protection :)
     
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  9. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 5000 Posts Club!

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    I've done this experiment with the cloth faraday bags I bought. And standing right beside the driver door with the key fob inside the bag completely masks the car and key from each other. Even with the flap opened, if the opening is angled away from the door you can't open it.
     
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  10. SKStinger

    SKStinger Canada Stinger Enthusiast

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    A good practice with these smart keys is to always keep a set of spare batteries and a small flat edge screwdriver close by (to change the battery). I like to have a set inside the car in case they die while i'm on a road trip.
     
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  11. hughanis

    hughanis United States Member

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    I used mine this weekend, went to a water park. Took the metal key out of the keyfob, locked the car, and put the keyfob in the trunk, closed the trunk, and the car was locked. The door opened fine with the key, and the alarm did not go off. Note that I did make sure the key worked before locking the keyfob in the trunk.
     
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  12. Berzerker

    Berzerker United States Active Member

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    Regarding talk of RFID, keep in mind a lot of fobs have passive RFID tags in them. Similar to how a card/badge system works, the fob will have a passive RFID tag, which would get powered by the car (wireless, it takes very, very little power to power a passive RFID tag) to send/verify data back and forth. So, even if the fob is completely dead, the car can still work, potentially, with the door handle buttons.
     
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  13. LVThundercat

    LVThundercat United States Newish Member

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    I guess I never realized the key fob has an alarm button. o_O
     
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