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Looking VERY likely that the Stinger will be firmly locked at MSRP

Discussion in 'Kia Stinger in the News' started by Bamm1, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Bamm1

    Bamm1 Active Member Founding Member

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  2. zoop

    zoop New Member

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    Meh, unless it sells like hotcakes they will sell below MSRP. Even if it does sell reasonably well they will sell below MSRP.

    At a minimum the fully loaded AWD GT2 I expect to sell for 3k below MSRP, below 50k... thats how they will be able to move it. As much as the claim is "they dont expect to sell many of these," they still expect to sell enough to turn a profit on the car and they have a heck of a lot of development cost in this one. If they dont sell below MSRP then wait until the end of 2018 when there will be tons of these on lots everywhere and they will be selling for 10k below MSRP while the 2019s are being unloaded at the docks. Chances are I am going to wait to do that anyway, only downside being getting the exact car I want that way might be tough but if Im willing to go 200mi to get the car I should be able to find any combination of interior, exterior, and trim level.
     
  3. jwhollan

    jwhollan Member

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    I dont expect these to be available for below MSRP for at least the first 3-6 months. By the end of the summer, of course they will be doing whatever they can to start dumping remaining inventory but there is no incentive for them to do that from the start. I have also heard rumors that dealers have been told that they are not even allowed to sell below MSRP on the first round of Stingers. I'm not sure about the truth to that, but considering that I think most dealers will only have 1 to 4 of these on their lots, why would they feel pressured to let them go for $3k off? If you don't buy it for MSRP, someone else will.
     
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  4. Jayce

    Jayce New Member

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    I wish I could do that, because that's pretty smart. It's actually what I want to do, but my Optima lease is up in June. I'm gonna have to grab something before then. I'm still waiting for more information about features though. Someone else said that they saw some with 360 cameras so I'm hopeful there's still a chance.
     
  5. eljay

    eljay Active Member

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    I'm probably stuck with paying MSRP too, since I need to dump my Old Paint before I have to replace tires or do other repairs. I'm already ignoring a coolant warning light that comes on randomly for no reason. There's no way I can wait to purchase until prices on the Stinger become negotiable. I'm just hoping that maybe a dealer will provide some perks at low/no cost--but assuming that won't happen either. In the past I've bought through the Auto Club buying program, and one of their reps already told me I'm undoubtedly not going to get any discount on the Stinger by using the program again.
     
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  6. Bamm1

    Bamm1 Active Member Founding Member

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    I agree. The 3K off "for sure" needs some clarification. At launch, likely not. They have to at least try to see what the market will bear. They did with the Niro (some dealers even tried to go above MSRP). The Stinger not selling well which results in models sitting on lots for 6+ months is a possible scenario in which the 3K off (probably much more) will likely be "for sure". If the article above holds true there is going to be a drive to make up the lost income somewhere. Can I get more money out of the Optimas I sell? Likely not, the family sedan category is too competitive. The Stinger, which everyone keeps saying has no real competitor? Yea, I can try to max out the sale price there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  7. zoop

    zoop New Member

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    Agreed, Im not expecting 3k off showing up on day 1 when the dealer only has 1-3 of these total to sell. 3K off will probably begin around the time the G70 sport is released as it seems they will be similar in MSRP from early reports. That pegs the initial discount around April 2018, probably larger incentives in late summer 2018, and then >5-7k off in Fall, *assuming* these arent selling well. I have a feeling the base models will sell well and even the GT1 at 39k base but all in on the GT2 is 52595+895 destination so Im guessing those will not be moving quickly at that price.
     
  8. jbweb7

    jbweb7 Member

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    Zoop, I actually think the base models are going to struggle the most. The performance crowd I think is going to find the GT because of it's good looks and bang for the buck. Saving $10,000 of a similar Audi I think is a good play for KIA.

    The base models are a completely different beast to me. Kia is fighting a two front war with the 2.0T. The Stinger is up against better equipped sporty challengers from Ford, Honda and Toyota that cost less. At the same time KIA is only offering a little more content for a $3,000 discount over a BMW 3 series. I don't think many prospective BMW base three series shoppers are going to enter a KIA dealership. These folks are buying the BMW name and looks and don't usually cross shop at KIA. Kia dealerships should be fighting to keep peons like me in their dealerships. If the 2.0T still looked like a GT, I think they could charge $30-40,000 and compete with the mass/upmarket offerings from Ford, Honda, Toyota, Buick, etc. Kia's choice to make the rims, lights and grill look cheap on the 2.0 lessens the biggest selling point of the car, it's looks. Instead of staying at a KIA dealer, we peons will find our way to a Ford Fusion Sport, Buick Regal or Honda Accord 2.0T with full safety suites, bigger nav screens, sunroofs, etc. Or in my case, perhaps wait for the GT's to be used in fall 2019 or the 2019 Stingers to have rectified the grill, rim and content situation.
     
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  9. zoop

    zoop New Member

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    I see your point but Im not sure I would say the Ford/Honda/Toyota challengers are better equipped... none of them will handle as well, and their styling definitely leaves a lot to be desired IMO. Toyota steering is notoriously soft. Hondas are sporty and reasonably priced but people who do their research realize that when it comes to quality now KIA matches if not surpasses Honda. Interior quality in American cars still leaves a lot to be desired and in general I think there are a lot of people who will buy American cars but wont buy foreign cars, and vice versa so not sure how much crossover there is in that respect.

    I think KIA is going to actually cannibalize a lot of their own sales from the Optima and maybe the Cadenza because a lot of those buyers will see the Stinger and go for it instead after driving it. I bought an Optima in 2012 for 32k and hands down I would take the base Stinger over that now. I do agree with you that logically the GT and GT2 are better bets because of the performance but simply there are more buyers in the lower 30s range than there are in the high 40s, and the buyers in the high 40s tend to be going to BMW, Mercedes, and Audi dealerships and dont even know about KIAs offerings.
     
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  10. Bamm1

    Bamm1 Active Member Founding Member

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    I would say they are MUCH better equipped. For the same price point the “Fusion/Accord/Camry” all have options you simply can’t get on the 2.0T Premium. Things like ventilated seats, 360 degree Camera, self-parking, HUD, heated rear seats, wireless charging, advanced 10 speed auto, etc. You need to add another $2000 to the Stinger Premium to get all the driver’s aids (ACC, blind spot monitoring, lane keep assist, etc.). At under 37K the Accords, etc. all have those options (even a base Accord has most of them standard). All of the “top” engines are also available at this price point for the “Fusion/Accord/Camry”. Other than the Fusion, I suspect they will be faster in a straight line and get better fuel economy than the 2.0T Stinger. There have not been any driving reviews of the US-spec’ed 2.0T Stinger. Without the adaptive suspension (and who knows what kind of suspension tuning) the 2.0T Stingers may not be all the much better (might be worse) than say the new 2.0T Accord when it comes to handling.

    Exterior appearance and how “premium” the interior feels are purely subjective so I won’t really comment on those. Other than to say the lower the price vs. content, the less those things seem to matter. The Stinger 2.0T is also not getting the Nappa leather, etc. It is also missing the "sportier" exterior trim offered on the GT models.

    No matter how many JD Power top spots Kia takes or how many times it places in the Top 5 in CR’s reliability rankings, the US market remembers the Kia Sephia. It is going to take years to change that perception. The depreciation of all of Kia’s models reflects that better than anything. That really should have been taken into consideration when they priced the Stinger.

    I agree completely with the very high risk of “just moving to the Germans” at Kia’s chosen price point for the Stinger GT’s. I usually don’t think it is fair to compare used/CPO to a brand model on price. But if one can get a 1-2 year old German car with similar options (that is faster and gets better gas mileage) for the same ballpark price, will the “average” consumer buy a Kia instead?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  11. Kia Stinger

    Kia Stinger Administrator Staff Member

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    One more area I think the Stinger will far exceed cars like the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, and others - is how it rides and how it feels when on the road. I can tell you one thing for certain - the Hyundai Genesis Sedan is a whole world different from the Camry, Accord, and Altima. A whole world. They feel very different. NVH (noise, vibration, harshness). Shutting the doors has the "thump" you expect from a luxury car. The ride/suspension is so much better. Just sitting in the car feels like you're a few levels above those other cars. My wife and I currently have a 2016 Honda Accord Touring V6 and 2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan V6 Signature. The cars are so different but they're both midsize sedans.

    I'm going to take a wild guess that the Kia Stinger is going to feel much better than the Kia Optima the same way my Genesis feels much better than any of the aforementioned cars. Why? Because it's built on the same platform as the Genesis G70 - which MUST compete wth Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etcetera...

    It'll be the same difference between the Hyundai Sonata and the Hyundai Genesis. Both midsize cars that cater to a completely different customer...
     
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  12. david norman

    david norman Member

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    I have a 2012 Kia Optima SX and I know exactly how you mean. When I looked at the accord and Altima before I tested the kia they seamed a little boring and not a good feel for me. After my wife and I tested the Optima we were sold. It just felt better. Not to mention them buttons and software was as easy as they come to use. When I sat in the Stinger last week after I sat in the audi I felt the same way like I didn’t belong in the a5 but the kia felt very solid and just right to me.
     
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  13. zoop

    zoop New Member

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    The problem is you are comparing the wrong cars, apples and oranges. If you want an apples to apples comparison with the Accord you look at the Optima which will still beat the Accord when equally equipped. The 2.0L Turbo Accord with leather seats and fully featured is going to be around $34k, to include the heads up display, cooled seats, etc over 36k. Even with that in mind the Honda is still not going to drive better than the Stinger because of the chassis dynamics. Ive seen plenty of road tests on Youtube of the 2.0L turbo Stinger and they all are still impressed, which is not something you ever hear about an Accord with regards to the drive. The Accord/Camry/Etc are family sedans, if that is solely what someone is looking for they arent going to be interested in the Stinger, they are going to be looking at the Optima or Cadenza if they look at KIA at all.

    You're also forgetting the base Stinger is a RWD car, not FWD like the other cars you listed. The Stinger is meant to be a driver's car, not a family sedan. The fact that that AWD can double as a family sedan is just a bonus.
     
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  14. Rennokas

    Rennokas New Member

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    100% agree with this guy here. In EU its also that the Fully loaded GT is 50k which is not bad at all. But the 2.2 diesel is 46K which is quite absurd. 2.0T pricing is not announced, but if the 2.0T GT-line goes for more than 37k it will not sell here.
     
  15. Bamm1

    Bamm1 Active Member Founding Member

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    I think everyone on this forum would agree (I do) with all of the above. But it is simply not translating to sales.

    Last month, in the US, the combined sales of every Genesis model was more than doubled by single models from the German competitors (5-series BMW; Mercedes E-class). With the average transaction price being much, much higher for the Germans. Toyota sold ~900 more Avalons in September than Genesis did overall. That is kind of sad.

    For Kia to attempt to use the same strategy with the Stinger seems like a mistake to me.

    I will hold my judgement until someone tests a US-spec 2.0T and/or I drive one. I would also expect people who want a "driver's car" to just pay the extra 2k for the base GT.

    The customer base that values "driving dynamics" is way too small to target and expect a sales success. It also has you completing with models you didn't intend to (hot hatches and the like). Also, when it comes to "performance" a lot of your "average" customers measure that in a straight line. For merging, passing, etc.

    I actually didn't bring up the Accord et al comparison on this thread. But it aligned with my standing criticism, which is almost exclusively focused on content vs. price. An area where I think Kia has failed pretty badly. The highest trim Accord is $36,675. It has MORE amenities/options than the $50,395 GT2 Stinger. Things like wireless phone charging, heated rear seats, rain-sensing wipers (can get this for 2200 bucks but you have to take AWD too), WiFi HotSpot, advanced 10-speed transmission, remote start, etc. Honda even added a resonator and resin molding to the inside of the wheel rims to reduce road noise by 6bD.

    So even if we add the "driver's aid package" to the 2.0T Premium to get all the safety features (most of which are standard on the 23K base Accord) you are still missing everything I listed above plus HUD, adaptive shock absorbers, ventilated front seats, 19-inch wheels, etc. and it will cost you $39,895.

    I don't see people paying more money to move up from non-luxury sedans to loose content, fuel economy, better depreciation, etc. and purchase a 2.0T model, even it is more fun on a back road.

    I also don't see German buyers moving down to snag the Stinger GT when one year old CPO models cost the same (while being faster and more fuel efficient). I also get that most luxury car buyers lease. The Stinger GT will likely loose pretty badly on cost there as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  16. david norman

    david norman Member

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    So the stinger gt2 doesn’t have wireless charging?
     
  17. david norman

    david norman Member

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    Another
    Another reason people buy other luxury brands is because society has brainwashed people. I know people who would buy an older audi with basic options than a new Genasis and that is really lame.
     
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  18. Chris

    Chris Member

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    Maybe/maybe not.
    A lot of people, me included look at more than just the badge, or options available. When buying a car I really try to make as smart a financial decision as I can. If I can buy a 1 or 2 year old BMW or Jag, that has already taken a big depreciation hit for the same price as a new Genesis that might make a whole lot more sense. 3 or 4 years from that point the Genesis will be worth a lot less than the BMW..
     
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  19. Kia Stinger

    Kia Stinger Administrator Staff Member

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    Kia has been putting great features in its cars for a long time so I hope they don't leave out anything of the Stinger. We'll see. If they do, some people will jump ship. In regards to cars like the 5-Series or E-Class, they're at the top of the charts and I never expect Kia to even touch them in sales. Lexus still hasn't - and never will.
     
  20. Bamm1

    Bamm1 Active Member Founding Member

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    According to this: http://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/models/stinger/2018/documentfile#stinger it does not.

    I agree, Kia was the "content" company. Why would you abandon that now for car that is getting positive press? Go "all in" on content, price and driving dynamics.

    I listed those numbers to illustrate that Genesis isn't really meeting their goal of siphoning off customers from models they market themselves against (even with a huge price differential). I would like them to take that into consideration when pricing their non-luxury brand Stinger. Go "low enough" with the right content and you might be able to get some family sedan owners to move on up.

    Heck, do the same thing with the Genesis brand (re: the G70) and you might be able to outsell the Toyota Avalon ;).
     

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